Jupiter x Dappio AMA

Jupiter: the key liquidity aggregator and swap infrastructure for Solana

Jupiter AMA with Justin(https://twitter.com/dappiokeeper) from Dappio (1/11/22)
Learn more about the solution that aggregates yields cross DeFi and GameFi offerings.

AMA Transcript

Ben Chow: All right. Thank you everyone for joining us on our latest AMA with Dappio. Got Wonderland keeper here, I forgot to ask, are you guys anon?

Justin: We are not anonymous. Actually, My name’s Justin, for those of you have been to Dappio for a long time, my actual name is Justin. So yeah, we are not anonymous, we’re fully transparent.

Ben Chow: Oh, okay. Awesome, man. That’s great. Totally vibe with that, super transparent. I’m totally out there, man. Don’t get me. Don’t come get me please. Let’s kickstart things.

Guest introduces himself and gives insight on Dappio [00:00:54]

Ben Chow: Usually, what I do is I just ask everyone the same question, which is, if you don’t mind introducing yourself and also explaining what Dappio is for people who haven’t used it before and how you got started with Dappio.

Justin: Yeah. It’s my pleasure is coming here. I’ve been in the industry pretty much ever since I graduated from college, back in 2014, got into crypto. Started mining BTC back in college, ever since that, always been advocate for BTC. Ever since Ethereum came, started developing related projects, especially developer tools.

My first job was working for XRP back in 2015 in Hong Kong later, I worked for Name foundations, a couple more projects, also work and living Dubai and Singapore, helping VCs on incubating projects from zero to one, one to two. Now, frankly speaking, it’s actually not a first time being involved with Solana projects and in fact, I and my team actually participated in the first global hackathons, when in the first year, the Mango Finance won the first place and we actually made it to the semifinal. We were granted $140,000 each, from the Solana Foundation, they meet us but I rejected it. We actually built a swap for Serum’s order book. Obviously, I wasn’t really convinced with the product we were building. So I had to doubt with the liquidities and also those sort of developer tools and in that time for our law, right?

So obviously I don’t want to be able to project, which is for the sake of raising money. I’ll actually want to build a proper project to help and enable more on the future uses of Solana. So, five months ago, I came up with this idea where I’ve been one of the early users for DApps and Zappers. So I was thinking, why can’t we have something similar, products like Zapper and DApps, perhaps even better on Solana.

So I know I started Dappio with a couple of core developers four months ago, by the way, our teams are across TaiP and LA, so yeah, we’re pretty decentralized in the way across Asia and the US. So yeah, we started four months ago, we shared this goal where, you know Solana is hard to use, first of all, it’s hard to track PY, when you want to go for the highest performers in one place is impossible. I think at the beginning of the year, we have Step Finance, some outdated managed to grasp the market share on Solana but Dappio is a Solana one deal then. We move very aggressively in terms of not just for the marketing, also for the development, in fact, we actually just closed our prep to Beta two weeks ago, we had over a hundred people sign up for it. So, people are interested, people want this kind of product and then we’re ready to deliver.

Also want to tell you guys that we are ready for our public Beta which we’ll be releasing in about 14 days. So far we have integrated with six nickels already as a milestone. I don’t think anyone on Solana has ever done such integrations or supported these many protocols and projects. We want to settle, I think integrations for Jupiter are also part of our roadmap, we have tried Jupiter for a couple of times, for many times, actually myself. I love the UI, I love the speed, I think people will love to use Jupiter on Dappio Wonderland.

Ben Chow: Thanks, man. I appreciate that. I think it’s been really nice to do that. I don’t think we do a lot of traditional marketing. I feel like a lot of people just hear about us because they use us and they’re like, “Oh man, you guys are awesome. I just use you all the time”. So, I think it’s a nice testament to people who are looking to build to just focus on building, if you build a good product, you don’t have to rush to get out there. You can just keep it going, you’ll get people over time. And I think that’s one of the things we’ve tried to do, focus on the fundamentals, not rush to get a token out and build up incentivized marketing and try to build up as many people as possible, just keep the stuff that’s important to us. It’s like keep building, keep shipping valuable features, integrating all the fundamental things and I feel like that’s worked out.

Diappo’s integrations so far [00:06:40]

Ben Chow: I want to ask, you said you had six integrations so far. Do you mind sharing which one you’ve already integrated with? I think that’s was pretty cool.

Justin: Yeah for sure. Right now we have Radiant, Solend, Larix, NCM, Tulip, Saber, actually, we’re going to have seven. We have seven already, Katana is also integrated. So if I do my math correctly, should have eight to nine protocols in one place, in the coming months, Jupiter is definitely on our priority list but again, just by integrating projects, it’s not enough for the communities. No, we definitely want to provide more yields in terms of opportunities. So, I also see some of the communities asking, what is the relationship with Appeals and Gino paths, right. So, Ben, I’m just going to extend, I’m just going to log three more here you don’t mind.

Ben Chow: Yeah. That’d be great. Go for it, man.

Justin: Yeah. Obviously, I have always wanted to build aggregators but a new generation of aggregators is more than just providing yields, right, so it has to aggregate actual products. So Dappio as a new generation aggregator, where we aggregate products, at the same time will provide extra yields but at the same time, the narrative has been changing drastically for the past couple of months or so we’re also moving toward a gamefi aggregator, you know, right now we are currently thrown out with Gino paths. I should have a mission done, now Heroes, and a couple more gaming projects. So I’m going to put them on my books of our chapter two roadmap. So think about this, Dappio in a couple of months later, when you think about Solana, you think about Dappio, a lot of retails are going to get frustrated to keep up with all these updates on our projects, APYs or innovations, or another key feature, before Dappio, pretty much, it’s like coinmarketcap, instead of checking the token price, you kind of have a platform that actually provides usage for yourself. Furthermore, speaking of GameFi focus for us, for chapter two, we’ll want to aggregate games to platforms. Let’s not forget, when you play games, you’re going to be earning tokens or any assets. For GameFi you’re going to be earning two assets: one is tokens; one is NFT. So imagine you’ve played three to four games on Solana, through daily or weekly, you’re going to get frustrated like, what is my performance for playing, Gino paths, or even now Heroes, monkey bowl, all these games, you still need a place, a dashboard to manage all these assets for you. What does GameFi aggregator mean? We’re going to enable NFT staking, we’re actually currently investigating a metaplex code, we found out that there could be a lot more improvements to be done in terms of structure also, figuring out how to enable NFT staking on top of our platforms as well, to earn the extra yield. So it’s going to be interesting, I also have to provide another alpha. We’re going to update our brand new website by this weekend, we’re going to explain more details on how we want to aggregate the entire Solana ecosystem into one Solana Wonderland on Dappio.

Things aren’t going to be interesting, we want to be a community-driven Wonderland, from the past couple of weeks, even days, we have grown from 10K followers to almost 22K. Obviously, you guys have seen the fact that our NFT also launched on Dropzone on Radiant. So, we are ambitious, we definitely want to, have kind of again, to own narratives and bring them to Dappio as a platform.

Ben Chow: I think that’s really cool, man. Thanks also for sharing that. When you mentioned DApp, that sort of clicked for me.

More on NFT staking, Dappio rewards? [00:11:30]

Ben Chow: So did you say on the GameFi aggregation side, is it mainly being able to have all the assets you have for certain games? Like in one place. And then on top of that, you’re saying that for a lot of these NFT assets, you’re going to enable staking of those assets to earn Dappio rewards on top of that, what you’re saying about bringing it all together.

Justin: Yes, for sure. In terms of GameFi aggregators, there are a couple of things that we can take a look into it. One is the management for your gaming assets. The second thing we also can take a look into is how we want to enable NFT staking for these games given NFTs that you have collected through playing all these games. So I think one of the perfect examples is that we were talking to a couple of projects, like Geno paths. So these guys had a hard time enabling their staking pools for the NFT. Now I know our tech team is extremely capable of building such platforms for staking pools for all these NFTs, so possibly if you stake a Gino path NFT, and do a staking pool, you earn double yields, you earn Dappio or tokens.

We haven’t announced any takers yet. You also earn Gino tokens. So, we created this platform where when where people think about NFT staking which we think is going to be huge these coming months. And who does it have an NFT right now? especially when you play games like you collect the NFT as a must. So earning extra yields by staking NFT, we’re also going to provide more game modifications. We’re enabling, daily tasks, weekly missions, having fun as well, interacting on all the platforms.

Ben Chow: Yeah, that’s really cool. I can imagine, I mean we’re in such early days. Right. Imagine what you could do with staked NFTs. I’ve heard people talk about like, lending NFTs to others, for other people to be able to access it, access a game, and earn, and then be able to split the rewards in the play-to-earn model. So I think there’s like a lot of possibilities, some of the gaming NFTs can be kind of inaccessible for people, they just get too expensive and they make certain parts of the game inaccessible and this could be a way to give access and share rewards and whatnot. I think that’d be really cool so I’m with you, man. And I honestly feel like gaming. I probably said this a bunch of times but I think gaming, especially on Solana is a good sort of the next wave for DeFi, not only for games like DeFi Land where DeFi has really built-in but everyone is coming in with the play to earn sort of value prop and that lifestyle and just like you said, once people start and they have assets, what do they do with them? And then I think that there’s still a gap between gamers and DeFi. They earn these things and they still don’t know what yet to do with them. Someone was sharing that actually when they get into gaming, Raydium, Serum are the brands that they hear about on the gaming side, so there are people who still use Raydium for swap or something, even though Jupiter could give them better rates. There need to be good pathways to introduce them to great DeFi and I think you’re positioning yourself to be one of them, like a model.

Justin: If you want to be a GameFi aggregator for Solana, I wouldn’t say it’s feasible at this point, because there are only a handful of the game that is half gone Mainnet. There are only like three to four games, so it doesn’t really make sense to aggregate then, right now. So, I think in the coming months or years for Blockchain and Crypto industry is all about branding. We want to establish as a go-to by aggregators on Solana first and then we can emerge into GameFi. Now, they haven’t disclosed one of the core features that we are going to propose where we’re going to announce our universal rabbit hole just our SDK. Actually, I learned from the models for Insidaps, a lot of people don’t know there are TVO that are showing by Insidaps is actually not for retails and there are over 30 plus projects coding on top of their SDK, it’s a lot. And then actually their monthly revenues is roughly around 1 million to three million branches.

So I think about this as a business model, actually makes more sense for Solana. First, Solana is hard to build, with high entry barriers in exchange for high security, less explosion and next re-up hole and so on and so forth. I think the future is we want to build projects long term, have to enable the doors for the future developers to be on top of your top floors, which is what we’re trying to build right now. So by universal rabbit hole, SDK, other protocols that we have integrated with will actually have started developments for our SDK and libraries. In the coming month or two months, all these developers that have integrated with us, protocols that have integrated with us, all the progress, they can build on top of it.

It’s actually a leverage right now cause I think we at Dappio, we ain’t even in a good position to say that a lot of these projects are not prepared to open source, don’t think will be prepared, they aren’t going to do so in the coming months. So, we have integrated with their platforms and protocols, we actually have the programs on our hands, right now all we have to do is packaged into a much more developer-friendly, Java library, which is SDK to enable the future developers to build on top of it. It’s actually a brilliant idea that we have come up with. So, yeah, I’m excited.

Ben Chow: Yeah, just for everyone listening, your code is open source, right?

Justin: We’re going to be open source a hundred percent.

Ben Chow: It’s not yet, but it will be, that’s the plan.

Justin: It will be, I think in the coming month or two, once public Beta goes live and it goes through some auditing and then maintenance and open source, it’s our plan right now.

Ben Chow: Well, great. It’s an amazing plan. I mean, obviously, we vibe super well with what you’re saying. We have our own SDK, for a lot of the same reasons, to be honest, to actually aggregate all of Solana’s liquidity, you’d have to interface with everyone’s SDK and they all do it a little differently and keep up to date with both the new markets that are spinning up as well as the new tokens, it’s kind of a pain. So, we have the same sort of goal in terms of being the one layer or the one-point access point where you can access all of Solana’s liquidity and swap and make it really easy.

Justin: Yeah, sure. I think in the future, the next wave is going to be DeFi 2.0 for Solana. Then 2.0 is now about how innovative you are, it’s about timing. You have Raydium, Orca, and Jupiter, these guys taking the most of the market shares. I expect the next wave of products, it’s going to be the builders on top of what these pools, platforms, and so on and so forth but I still haven’t seen a platform that can help people to build on top of these platforms. So if no one is going to do it, I’ll just do it.

Ben Chow: Yeah. I think that’s right. The thing that I’m most excited about is the next wave that you’re talking about. Which is, I think it’s getting there. We’ve been talking to some early folks who haven’t gone live yet that are looking to do some of that stuff. I would say most of it is still variance of what is on Ethereum but what I’m really excited about it. You know the next wave of composability and interoperability, unlocking sort of new things and I think that’ll happen sometime this year and it could be with your SDK, you even accelerate it right because you just make it even easier. So I think that would be really cool to see.

Community Question: “Are there collaborations planned with Jupiter?” [00:22:06]

I’m just gonna loop back in on some of the community questions.

Someone actually asks, “Are there collaborations between us planned?”

We’ve mentioned that you guys are going to integrate Jupiter in Dappio. I think we’re also just kind of like riffing on some other co-marketing, co-lab plans too.

We usually do a cool NFTs or something with folks. So we could probably do one there. Just to loop back on that, I really love the vibe, the branding vibe, and the community vibe that you’ve built, I feel like it’s Insidaps, I think they did really good, it’s a really nice professional approach to what they’re building and you guys are building more of a fun vibe which sort of fits with your plans, with gaming and Solana in general.

Justin: One of the first things that I’ve told my core members and founders is I definitely don’t want to build something we’re starting with “sol”, there are way too many projects starting with “sol”-something, that’s way too biased for the communities. I think a community would definitely want to be open source as much as possible, from a product for long term, there are a couple of metrics, you can take a look into it. You know, the community is definitely one of them. We definitely don’t want to take the community for granted, especially you with building from zero to one at this point. Three months ago, and nobody knew about Dappio, three months from now, for now, gonna say we have made it and we still have a lot more work to do, we’re not satisfied. We definitely want to build more.

Ben Chow: Yeah and actually, just so everyone listening knows, the reason why we even connected is actually because people in our community were talking about you. I just want to point out actually, we’re very community-oriented too, our goal is to constantly move towards looping in more and more of the community as part of what we do and the typical steps of product improvements. Actually, we’re really keen to work with other projects that our community is really into and it’s really important to us. I think that’s a lot of the partnerships and announcements and things that we share and who we work with come from the community.

I just want people to know we’re really thankful for that and want to acknowledge that, that’s one of the reasons. It’s not just us coming out with these things, “Hey, we like this project let’s work with them”. I mean, there’s some of that, but a lot of it is also “who does our community like using?”, like “who do they vibe with?”, “what are the other great communities out there?” I think you build a great community and there’s probably some crossover. And I think it’s a powerful thing, man. It’s really powerful.

Justin: I think the purpose of having Dappio on Solana Wonderland is not actually not to compete with projects. I’m pretty sure Ben coming from the founders perspective or even from the community perspective, we’re actually promoting the entire Solana ecosystem as a whole. Everything about it. In the projects that we integrate, people are still going to use their product but through Dappio. So there’s something that I’ve been telling my community: I think eventually Dappio would be the spot where other communities come together, providing values and feedback. So it’s something that I’m most excited about, where I have seen communities from Solend, Larix, Raydium, or Katana, all these community members come to our discord saying that they can’t wait to test our products.

I’m pretty sure if your farm Raydium or Orca, I’m pretty sure you also do some deposit through Katana or do some trading through Jupiter as well, right? So yeah, this is the most part I’m excited about where Dappio can be a daily use platform from day to day.

Ben Chow: Yeah, I agree, there’s a lot of people, it’s kind of the same principles of what we’re doing with Jupiter, with aggregation, right? You don’t want to be going to visit all the ducks individually and comparing prices and finding routes, you just want one place to go, and we do all the work for you. I think you have like the same sort of model, but more towards the project level, rather than just aggregation, swap aggregation, or liquidity and I think that’s pretty cool, man. I think for a lot of people, they want a one-stop-shop, I think that appeals right and I would say the other thing you mentioned that I really liked, which was this sort of like the whole grow-the-pie model, we try to find people who are thinking in the same way because I think Solana has had this reputation where a lot of people are pretty competitive and it is true, but it’s so early.

I think people still don’t recognize that it’s so early, Solana’s TVL is just over 10 Billion, 12, maybe vacillates between around like maybe 11, 12, or something and I mean that’s just the beginning, man. You know this is all the early phase, the early part of the growth curve. So there’s so much more to unlock, and I think what you’re doing is one of the ways, I think gaming and NFTs, these are one of the ways to unlock a bigger market of people who get into Solana, both get into Solana and into device. So I think it’s really cool.

Trivia Questions: Most Wrong Answer (What is the reason answer for why Dappio is called Dappio) [00:29:02]

I need to switch, we do a trivia thing with our AMAs, what that means is that I’m going to hop in on the AMA channel right now and ask our first trivia question. We do these trivia questions called like the “most wrong” version. So I think this would be a fun trivia question.

Alright, here we go.

Trivia question number one. “What is the most wrong answer for why Dappio is called Dappio?”

Justin: I love it. I get that a lot though. I get that a lot. I’m sure you do.

Ben Chow: I’m sure you do, actually, these are kind of smart. I thought they were going to go totally dark or something, some dark humor.

Justin: These are generous. The idea of a kind community.

Ben Chow: You know actually it’s really funny. Like all the communities are actually very different. I really like our community. I think we have a really good community and we do have a kind of community, we’ve had a couple of AMAs with some of the meme coins, and man, I’ve had to be like, yo! let’s chill out a little bit man because It’s like it gets dark, dark really fast and then people are like, what is going on here? Why are people doing this?

Maybe it’s a thing with DeFi, we got a lot of good DeFi focusing.

So basically the way this works is that for the most wrong answer edition, whichever answer you think is most strong or whatever you vibe with.

Justin: I read through all the messages, I’m overwhelmed right now. Do I vote?

Ben Chow: Yeah. Just pick one that you like and we’ll announce the winner. If you want to just reply to the one that you like, and then I’ll tag them.

Justin: I’m trying to figure out too.

Ben Chow: This guy, Morty is like, he’s a veteran trivia winner.

Justin: Good one there, Morty, I like that, like how you paste the lyrics afterward.

Ben Chow: He’s dope, dude, Morty. We’re going to have to put you in the hall of fame or something. There are a few guys who are just like amazing at trivia. They just win all the time. Morty is getting up there, man. Cool. All right.

More on integrations with Dappio [00:34:33]

So, just to go back to some of the integrations that you were talking about. So you’ve got eight. I think this is a good topic actually, just to set sort of the context I feel like you brought up a good point, right? You know there’s not a lot of open-source code. Well, I mean, people are starting to open source but not a lot is open source. Rust is hard. Like actually something that we found, just having to integrate with a lot of other projects and SDKs and this is something I’ve talked with Chase2 from Solana but there are no standards, I mean some people coalesced around some of the boilerplates Solana code but a lot of it is just actually to integrate with people, a lot of times you actually have to talk to them. You have to go in and talk to them and ask questions and find out things. Which is good. I mean, it’s good in a way, especially at where Solana is, where you get to know other projects and you can help each other out.

I think that’s fantastic but it’s hard to scale, right? Like we’re already in a ton of telegram groups with other projects trying to help them out. You got to integrate one by one and it’s all different and some people may have some quirks and things that you have to work through. I really think that it would be like how I think the name, especially for what you guys are doing. Like, how do you move? How do you integrate faster? Right. How do you make it easier?

I feel like it’s really manual for each project that you want to integrate. I think you guys are going to end up maybe being an answer to that but like for yourselves, like how do you scale that up? You know just to add one more thing was that one of our last AMA with Albridge, I really liked what they did. They said something really, they didn’t go into the details on this, but I really liked what they said about they have a similar challenge creating a bridge to all the chains and their challenges is similar to what we have to do because every market that we integrate with, we have to interconnect them to everyone else. So it’s not just us integrating them. It’s actually exponentially harder, the same thing with Allbridge. Every chain you add has to interconnect with every other chain and one thing he said, that was really interesting was they’d built an architecture where, once they integrate that new chain into Albridge, it automatically gets connected to everything else.

You’re not having to manually kind of connect each thing to each thing which would slow things down. I really liked that point and I wonder how can we bring about that, how can we take some of that, that idea or make that easier for people who want to build on top of more Solana projects.

Justin: I think I get what the question is, there are obviously, there are no shortcuts, you know, we so far, we have integrated with at least seven protocols already. Everyone’s codes are different, are unique in some ways, actually, it makes it harder for us to produce aggregators for these protocols, and then an extra yield on top of it, cause you pretty much had to create a vault above all these protocols. So, I can disclose that in the coming weeks, how we want to structure this and in terms of POC, we are actually on the development for that already. It is a big work, a big milestone for us to achieve, but again, our teams are a size over 12 people with six developers, really capable of building on top of Solana. We have one kid, a college dropout who is only 19 years and he got into Solana when he was 17. Yeah. Well, I’m grateful. I’m fortunate to have all these top talents now joining Debbie. Yeah. Getting back to the question where you asked, how do we want to enable this open-source culture for Solana?

Is Solana going to open source in the future? My answer is, I don’t know, the culture is different. Now, if you spend months building a project, there are high entry barriers. A lot of people don’t want to open-source unless there are benefits. So you know where I’m seeing right now like you guys Jupiter, Orca, you know Raydium is not even open-source, not as much as you guys do. They had to have some sort of skin to the games when able to open source for developers and like you said, there are no standard guidelines for open source for Solana, especially for SDK. So I saw the opportunities, I’ve been chatting with my tech leads and core developers, where there are some guidelines where we can make a great example.

We’re on a project as well. So, SDK is definitely something that’s part of our key roadmap where we wanna enable for a version one, we wanna enable at least five protocol programs to our SDK. So for developers to build on top of it and then a lot of you guys might wonder, are we going to build on top of you guys. I’m the type of guy that’s more of a like self-driven guy. I’m not going to rely on my Twitter marketings just to chase the developers to build on top of that Dappio. So in fact, a lot of people from Solana know that we’re actually hosting a hackathon in April, we expect that there are going to be at least 400 plus developers joining the hackathon, and part of the hackathon’s scope would be building on top of our SDK. Also, a lot of you guys didn’t know that me and my tech lead who is my co-founder would be hosting a Solana workshop, for six months already. The first workshop we held, Solana was less than $30 actually and the first workshop we held, less than 10 people attended, previous workshop, over 120 developers signed up and there are almost 100 developers actually showing up through the workshops. This actually shows that a lot of developers are actually interested in building on Solana in Taiwan.

Therefore we figured out hackathon would be a great platform, a great event for them to build, and what is going to be built on top of it, the SDK. So I’m excited.

Ben Chow: I actually spoke with Justin before this to get their background. I think what’s interesting with Dappio actually, is that they started off doing these hackathons and so what I was thinking, it’s a really good advantage for them that they’re actually helping onboard new developers to Solana. I think coming from that place is really good, there’s a lot of synergy between that and doing an SDK, that helps other new developers integrate all these projects.

I tried to summarize a little bit what you said, because I think it’s really interesting, some other projects, you actually started off, hosting these hackathons and you play this role where you’re helping onboard new developers into Solana. I think that’s a really unique position where you’re building this, the Dappio SDK which at the same time you’re helping onboard these users, you’re actually building an SDK that make it even easier for them to integrate with all these great Solana projects. So I think that’s a great place to be for what you’re doing.

Justin: Yeah, for sure. Same as Jupiter, coming from you guys perspective where you guys want more and more platforms to integrate with Jupiter to enable integrations for product audience, for Solana users. Not just for Solana, I think in the future it’s definitely going to be multichain. There are going to be more developers to enable between chain to chain. So what happens if there are a solid team for Ethereum or EVM chains that wants to build on top of Solana, it doesn’t make sense for them to read through all the codes of all these different protocols. Eventually, we would figure out where Dappio SDK which is universal rabbit hole would be much more suitable in terms of efficiency and performance. I’m just excited to work with you guys.

Truth to be told I’ve been in the EVM culture for a long time where I see a lot of great developers building projects on EVM, what surprises me the most is that a lot of developers decided to leave Ethereum to actually move into Solana, that actually got me interested. I began doing research a year and a half ago on what’s special about Solana. In fact I spoke to the co-founder of Twitch, Harry, sort of a friend of Justin, the other day at TaiP, they’re mega bullish like these guys are super bullish on Solana. Justin is not going to pick Solana for no reason, let’s be real about that. These guys are looking at a year to two years ahead of industries, despite the price fluctuation for Solana and all these SPL tokens but one thing I can be assured is that we have much more talented developers than any other chain right now. I wanted to say Ethereum but in terms of layer 2, I’m confident, on Solana we definitely are on the top list right now in terms of activities or intelligent developers onboarding.

Ben Chow: So yeah, I don’t have any firsthand knowledge about that, but I think that you’re saying a lot of the same things that Andriy from Allbridge said and the thing is like a lot of the Layer 2 or a lot of the other chains are just forks of Ethereum. So it’s hard to know whether the technical team driving that is actually capable of really pushing the boundaries. Whereas with Solana, it’s completely new, you have to create something well on it. You have to know what you’re doing, work through a lot of these issues. So I think it just shows it’s a good proof point from the people who are building on here and I think that’s why there is a lot of better quality, by the way, I just want to say awesome job on the name. I love the universal rabbit hole. Just you guys do some great naming, it’s so on point man. It’s so on point for what you’re doing, the total rabbit hole. The rabbit hole to end all rabbit holes.

Justin: Well, I try to be mean. I try to just be me and then as joyful as possible, you know a lot of us, a lot of projects are too cooperate in all their image and stuff like that. So, no, we want to give to the audience and communities the different tastes of our product. So a lot of people liked it, if you just come to our community, you’d see in Twitter, you see a lot of people changed their names to Rabbits like you know bracket rabbit, comma Rabbits. We’d definitely see more of rabbit culture coming, for Solana in the coming days or weeks.

Ben Chow: Nice. So, that on rabbit NFTs for the future?

Justin: Yes.

How Dappio intends to keep up with updates [00:49:05]

Ben Chow: I wanted to ask a few questions. One was just a little bit more on the integration side. How do you keep up with updates? People are updating their on-chain programs, they’re updating their SDKs. Do you think there’s any good solution or is it more of, you just have to grind through it. You just have to do the hard work and just go through everything.

Justin: I think that’s a good question. A lot of people have been asking me, “How are we going to update on our SDK?” And I think, eventually you have to go through phases. I’m pretty sure for Phase 1 of our SDK, we would definitely have to put in more work towards updating all these documentation updates through all these protocols. Imagine there are six protocols or even 10 to 20 quote protocols using our SDK, I think that will be the moments where, all these projects for forced to update and upgrade themselves to have better documentation, consistently update Dappio where, “Hey, we’re going to update our codes in the next coming two weeks, this is what we have. Instead of you guys grinding through all the documentation that we have” updating with Dappio telling you guys as a team. So, you know, I think in some ways, for those projects, they are not planning to do open source. They are passive where they don’t even plan to open source, let’s be honest, at this point.

So, our job is that we want to enable and then change this culture, where we might inspire to all these projects that have been integrating with us where they realize that “Hey, they’re actually people building on top of Dappio SDK” and then through their SDK they’re building on top of our pools, all the platforms. So we might want to spend more time organizing this documentation better instead of a hit and miss sometimes. Yeah. So, it’s definitely going to be a pain in the ass, at the beginning where we have to constantly ask protocols to update us whenever there is an update but I believe in the coming months, when we have more protocols building on top of our SDK, it’s going to be an interesting situation where they will be surprised.

They will realize that you have to evolve, No, they can just be staying in the same cultures where you just do your own platform, take care of security, so on and so forth. I have to evolve to a point where we have to constantly help Dappio to update our documentation and help developers to build on top of their SDK and also benefit our protocols. This is actually my goal right now.

Ben Chow: Awesome, man. I think it’s a good one. I don’t, I don’t know too many people really working on that problem but I think helping people tackle that one will help unlock a lot of the innovation that’s going to come from integrating and composing on top of sort of the existing project out there.

More Alpha to expect on Dappio [00:52:37]

One last question that I usually ask before we go. You shared a lot of alpha already from your SDK to your website relaunch this week. Anything that you’re super excited about that’s coming out, that you want to share with everyone?

Justin: Yeah, I know, two things that we’re most excited about this month. We’re launching our NFTs on a Dropzone on Raydium, a 100% fair launch. We don’t hold any NFTs as a foundation, as a project owner. Also, for NFTs, we’d enable DeFi utilities coming forward. So I’m excited there are actually NFTs that have a purpose for people to hold and Interact with the platform.

The second thing I’m also excited about is our public Beta which we have scheduled to go live in about two weeks from now, that’s in two weeks actually 10 to 11 days from now. By that time, I think a lot of communities from Jupiter, Raydium, Solend, Katana, all these top protocols, they’ll come to Dappio, to try our public Beta. At that moment people would realize that we actually need these kinds of products for Solana Ecosystem. So honestly, I can’t wait to promote Jupiter on our platform. I’ve always believed from the point of view where we’re here to promote projects instead of competing with projects. So yeah, for those of you who have been using Jupiter for a long time, “Welcome to Dappio”.

We’re still going to provide the same user experience, the same speed, and then swap, everything stays the same but instead, you get to leverage all the protocols in one place and you also get to earn more yield in the coming weeks.

Ben Chow: Awesome man. Well, that sounds amazing. I for one, I’m really excited, for when we can announce the Jupiter integration, I think it’s going to be fantastic.

Thanks so much for coming on and sharing your insights and sharing your alpha. Awesome. Thank you everyone for listening, stay tuned for the next one.

Justin: Sure. Thank you. Looking forward to working with you guys. I’m super excited. If you guys have any questions to ask in discord, we’re on Jupiter, we’re on Dappio. I’m here to answer all the questions when you guys need it.

Ben Chow: Awesome. Thanks, Justin. You have a good day and same to everyone else.

Cheers.

Justin: Cheers guys. Bye.

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